Cristobal Tapia de Veer says he’s checking out of “The White Lotus” for good.
After three seasons, the Chilean-Canadian composer whose trademark sounds helped define the hit HBO series, has said he won’t return for its fourth and final season. He blames a growing rift with Mike White, the show’s writer and director.
Reached at his home north of Quebec City, Tapia de Veer says he’d been pulling away from the show for years, and now that he’s cut ties, says: “I’m just relieved.”
“I’ve been parting ways with (it) since Season 1, but for various reasons, I kept coming back.”
Tapia de Veer describes “The White Lotus” — an outlandish social satire that invariably descends into violence — as a departure from the type of projects he’s worked on, which is arguably why his music works so well.
“For anyone who has seen my other work,” he says, “this is not my cup of tea, normally.”
His scores are lauded for driving thematic elements in strange and compelling ways. In the sci-fi TV series “Utopia,” it was the unsettling clash of humans and technology, and his music for Nicole Kidman’s erotic drama “Babygirl” incorporated a playful and breathy sexual touch.
With “The White Lotus,” he created the show’s familiar “ooh-loo-loo-loo” theme and injected powerful tribal elements that creep into its most dramatic moments.
But he says creative differences with White over the direction of the score escalated during the making of the Thailand-set third season, and Tapia de Veer says that led him to end the partnership.
While much has been made of controversy over Season 3’s theme song and the absence of its famed “ooh-loo-loo-loo” trademark, Tapia de Veer says many other factors contributed to his departure.
Ahead of the season finale, airing Sunday on Crave, he spoke with The Canadian Press about the conflicts, controversies, successes and sounds of “The White Lotus.”
CP: So you’ve officially severed ties with the series that brought you three Emmy Awards. From the sounds of it, you feel that cutting loose is a bit freeing. Why did you stay for so long?
Tapia de Veer: When you hear all the time about how important the music is and (how it) kept people interested in something that could have been more like a normal show, it starts feeling like I have a responsibility to keep helping out. There are so many reasons to get attached to something — even if it’s like (being in) a toxic relationship. We reached a point (that was) unsustainable on a personal level. I just want to be more comfortable with the people I work with.
CP: In past interviews, you’ve described taking a lesser role in the second season, partly because you weren’t as eager to get involved again, but also because you were busy with other projects. If you were reluctant with the second season, why return for a third?
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Tapia de Veer: I love Thailand. I have tattoos from Thailand. I have instruments — a collection of gongs — and all of that. So when they said, “We’re going to Thailand (for the new season),” it felt like I already had some connection with the spirituality and all that. That paved the way for me to come back. I didn’t sign the contract for a long time, even when I started, because I didn’t know (if) we could make this work. I make clear that I don’t do these kinds of jobs — I don’t do background music.
CP: What you’re describing sounds like a foundational disagreement over the role, or at least the prominence, of the music in “The White Lotus.”
Tapia de Veer: There isn’t an understanding of what I bring to the show, because it works so well. I cannot understand why, even now, I have to battle for my ideas so much. It’s such a struggle. The other person could say, “What am I supposed to do? You send me weird stuff, and I’m supposed to like it?” Maybe not. Maybe you can give it time. If for no other reason than the fact that this show has won 15 Emmys, three of those are mine. What’s it going to take for somebody to trust me to make some decisions? And if I cannot decide what goes where — the reason I’m hired to do this — then I don’t understand what I’m doing here. This is why I say I’m relieved that I’m not going to go through that again.
CP: Season 3’s theme doesn’t include the trademark “ooh-loo-loo-loos” of the previous two seasons. That seemed to rankle many people on social media.
Tapia de Veer: People were mad at first, but they were being bad tourists. They were unhappy not finding their comfort. But what’s really cool is that (over time) people started sending me videos of them dancing to it. That’s a transformation for me. It’s an even bigger achievement … changing people’s minds. I’m really happy with this theme because, to me, there’s some witchery going on with that melody. I think it fits the spirituality and mystery of Thailand.
CP: But did you anticipate the backlash?
Tapia de Veer: We never talked about (whether) people were going to be mad. One of (the producers) told me, “It’s crazy how people are attached to that thing. All they need is the ‘ooh’ and they would be happy.”
At some point I talked to the producer and, thinking like a DJ I (said), “This is a really massive chance to build up something and then at three in the morning drop the big thing that people want to sing.” He was up to it, and very enthusiastic, but with the problems I had with Mike he was like “No, we’re not doing that.” To me, people want to party, so let’s give them the party. Either opening or finishing an episode, anywhere really.
CP: A couple of weeks ago, you posted an alternate version of the Season 3 theme song on your YouTube page, which includes the “ooh-loo-loo-loos” in an incredible crescendo. It’s longer than most opening themes – running about 2 minutes and 45 seconds. Was that the other version?
Tapia de Veer: I have like 20 versions. One of the first versions starts only with the (haunting) voice – but that was way too creepy for them. They cut it and sent me the titles without that. (Another) version had piano at the intro and it sounded different. I kept receiving notes that it was too “minor-sounding.” At some point, one version had the accordion … at the beginning. That helped everybody feel more happy. At some point it was like, whatever that’s the theme – and that’s that. It’s incredible, the power you can have with one little thing. If those voices were there somewhere, nobody would’ve complained. But it’s like the sky fell. I asked many times: “Can we have at least 10 seconds or 20 seconds more?” Because Apple or the other streamers have these longer titles. You have time to get into something and it’s cool.
CP: What other ideas were turned down?
Tapia de Veer: While the women are trash-talking, I added this mysterious harp going on with some percussion. And they didn’t use that because (they said) it felt too creepy. To me, it was fun and weird. I don’t need to see these women bitching about all this trash. If you had some funky or comedic music in the background, I’m just not going to watch that. What’s interesting is the clash. It’s the depth and perspective that there’s more going on. Maybe it’s just my taste.
CP: Are you still happy with how the third season sounds?
Tapia de Veer: Whatever is there, I’m happy. I wish it was less censored … (but) I’m happy about some dark moments that remain. There’s some music going on where it’s more aggressive than whatever we did before, with battle drums and even some synthesizer on top of Thai-sounding instruments. It is so super chaotic. I’m really happy we have hard techno, that after-hours club vibe. The theme, to me, is massive. I’m really happy about that.
CP: These examples you’ve given, do you plan to release them on YouTube?
Tapia de Veer: No. I’m not allowed. I was sent a cease-and-desist or however you call it. They left the video I posted (but said), “That’s it, no more.”
CP: Do you think HBO can replace you for what’s supposed to be the fourth and final season?
Tapia de Veer: I mean, they have tons of music from the three seasons and a good music editor who can juggle with that and make something happen. I’m sure they could do some fun, cool music and people would watch the show at this point, regardless. The brand is there now.
CP: Many behind-the-scenes creators wouldn’t go public with these experiences. Why did you choose to speak out?
Tapia de Veer: I’m happy to not be in the shadows about this. Maybe it’s just I’m not from Hollywood and I’m from a freaking Chile dictatorship and I am just not afraid of them, I don’t really care. I charged back as much as I had to. It’s like a rock ‘n’ roll band – and I’m a guy from bands. I know what it’s like to have no connection with the singer, but somehow you have to work with them because you make something with this band and it works out. This is why we like all the big bands who (broke up) in the ’80s and then come back together. It’s show business.
CP: So like a rock band, are you saying you could get back together for a reunion?
Tapia de Veer: No, don’t say that! Uh, yeah, no. But in the future, when I look back to this, (I’ll be) proud. It’s amazing that we did this. The rest I’ll have forgotten about. Whatever tensions and nonsense went on behind the doors. It’s just right now, I want to break out.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
